Permavine FAQ  (updated 10-19-2001)
Here we have compiled a list of answers to questions that may be asked.  Since this is a new site, we have tried to anticipate all possible questions and written up responses.  If these don't answer your questions, please send us the question
 
 
 
How do I get a copy of the Permavine?
  Each Permavine is offered either on the "Texture" group at Yahoo, or on the Sony's Catherine Wheel BBS.  Watch these two for the offer.  When you do respond, make sure you include a mail address (postal mail) on where to send it to, wait for a few days and you will get it.  Of course, once you make your copy, PLEASE, offer the original CD up again.  This is the only way that these Permavines will continue to be available.  It really is in your hands.

Here are the links to both sites:

Participation is the key to this venture. If you read the history of etree you will see that a bunch of audio enthusiasts, who insisted on the best quality, got together, pooled their efforts and resources to create an actual organization that promotes sharing, trading, giving (ZERO money transfer or profits) of the music they love. 

 
 
What is a "Permavine"?
  A Permavine is a show on CD-R offered to a group of people for free, with the understanding that the recipient make a copy, put the original back into the original mailer (if it's not trashed!) and offers it up to another fan - who will do the same - ad infinitum (therefore 'perma' - neverending!). 

The shows are offered up in shorten format because the received 'compressed' disc, once 'decoded' by the free software widely available, will produce a digital clone of the original disc, only in .wav format - ready to burn!

 
 
What is "shorten"?
  Shorten is a format that allows us to 'compress' the original .wav file into a smaller, more easily downloadable, medium.  Also, shorten files are 'checked' for integrity, to make sure the file contains EVERY bit of information needed to 'decode' back into the digital clone.  The check is called '.md5' or 'checksum'.

To find more information on Shorten and md5sum, visit etree, "A Small .SHN and .MD5 FAQ" or SoftSound
 
 
What is etree?
  From http://www.etree.org/

...etree.org, the award-winning leader in lossless digital audio distribution on the Internet! We are a community committed to providing the highest quality live concerts in a lossless, downloadable format.

...Eetree.org uses the Shorten (.shn) audio compression format because it creates an exact clone of the original source.

We do not distribute MP3 due to its lossy compression scheme which greatly degrades the quality of the audio. If you trade a CD-R's from MP3 audio, you are polluting the CD-R trading community.

Etree.org gives everyone the means to easily create and trade live music with no loss in quality. Best of all, it's all FREE!

From http://www.etree.org/whoarewe.html

The etree.org music community was created in the summer of 1998 for the online trading of live CD-R's. We do not trade CD-R's via regular mail. Instead, we trade by downloading losslessly compressed audio files, extracting these files, and then burning them onto a CD-R.

The etree.org community uses an independent network of file (FTP) servers that host and distribute Shorten (SHN) audio files. Shorten is our file format of choice because it uses a lossless compression scheme, and is available for a variety of operating systems. This means the digital audio files distributed via etree.org are identical to the original DAT source, and can be played on any computer. There is absolutely NO sound quality loss, or any loss of information for that matter! Every downloaded copy is an identical clone of the original DAT source.

Visit etree for more information.

 
 
What is the difference between a Permavine and copies of the same show?
  When we release a permavine, we usually get the best copy of a show sent to us by a Catherine Wheel fan.  The best copies are usually CDR or DAT.  The show is processed (How are the Permavines created?).  Once this is done, and the show is ready for everyone, a MD5 checksum (What is the MD5 file on the CD?)  is created so that everyone can check to make sure that they have the same show. 

The main difference between a Permavine and any other copy of the show is the great care taken to make the show the best it can be and the MD5.  You can check your copy of the Permavine to make sure it's the exact same show as the one everyone else has.
 
 
How does the CWLA compare to etree?
  Actually, since we have permission to shore and trade recorded music, as long as there is no money or profit, we could be part of the etree organization!  We are discussing the possibility of this.  We would apply, and then a 'board' (I suppose) would make sure it was legit and either accept or deny us.  For example, see the "The Tapers Database" on etree to check out how many other bands allow sharing of their live recorded material.  What a wonderful thing!
 
 
How are the Permavines created (can I make one)?
  The process in which Permavines are created can be a lengthy process.  This is a very simplified overview of how Permavines are created.

1.  A digital copy of a show on a CD-R, DV, or other format is made.
2.  The show is sent through a process of cleaning, equalizing, leveling, etc.
3.  Once the show is ready, the Permavine CD is made and an offer is put up.

ANYONE can start a Permavine.  Monitor the etree "announce" or "digest" list and you will see many, many vines offered from various people.  However, please follow the etree guidelines for seeding.

We do NOT want shows that are unlistenable.  Fortunately, there exists software that team CWLA team members can use to 'clean', or 're-master' the show, from cassette, DAT, reel, etc.  So if you have a show, you can 'vine it. 

Please be aware that if you want it tracked properly, go to the etree software section that will lead you to apps that will 'cut' the music files in the right spots, so we don't hear any pops or clicks, due to tracking errors.

The CWLA teams gladly accepts any donations - the great part besides contributing is you get the original back, along with a re-mastered version of it. Please remember - the recording can only be so good, depending on the source tape (CD, DAT....) so make a decision or send it in!  We'd be glad to give it a listen to see if it's salvageable!
 
 
Once I get the CD in the mail, what do I do?
  After getting the Permavine, awe in all its glory!  Then, go to the CWLA Permavine Tutorial on how to deal with the files on the CD.

After you have made your copy, offer the Permavine up again!
 
 
What are the .SHN files on the CDs?
  The .SHN is the extension for the Shorten audio format by Tony Robinson of SoftSound.  It's a lossless format that allows maximum compression.  It's larger than mp3s, but has better sound quality.  It's smaller than the wav format, but has identical quality.

To find more information on Shorten and md5sum, visit etree, "A Small .SHN and .MD5 FAQ" or SoftSound
 
 
What are the .MD5 files on the CDs?
  The .MD5 files provide a signature (like a checksum) for the .SHN files on the CD.  Once the .SHN files are copied anywhere, you should use the .MD5 file to make sure it copied properly.

To find more information on Shorten and md5sum, visit etree, "A Small .SHN and .MD5 FAQ" or SoftSound
 
 
Why use the .SHN format instead of CDRs?
  Some of the shows that we will be offering will be from multiple CDRs.  In order to minimize the cost of offering these up, and to improve the audio, it is necessary to extract the music from the CDRs and process each track.  Also, the shorten format allows fans who do not have a CD burner to copy the music in optimum format.
 
 
How do I make an Audio CD from the Permavine?
  Though there are many different CD Burning programs out there (EZ CD Creator, Nero, etc) the idea is the same.  Go to the CWLA Permavine Tutorial to learn more about how to create Audio CD's from a Permavine.
 
 
Why is there shows from Serafin here?
  The Catherine Wheel (as of 08/19/2002) is not functioning as a full fledge band (they are "parked").  As past or present members of the band get involved with other projects, we will continue to try to make their live performances available.  Ben Ellis, who played Bass for the Wishville tour, has joined up with the band Serafin.  We have one show available from Serafin, available here
 
 
How can I contribute to CWLA?
  The CWLA teams gladly accepts any donations - the great part besides contributing is you get the original back, along with a re-mastered version of it. Please remember - the recording can only be so good, depending on the source tape (CD, DAT....) so make a decision or send it in!  We'd be glad to give it a listen to see if it's salvageable!
 
 
Where can I find more information?
  Here are various web sites and FAQs for more information:

Catherine Wheel:

.SHN format and other:
 
 
Is this legal?
  In short, yes.  Catherine Wheel and their management do not object to recording and trading of live shows or b-sides as long as the traders don't try to sell these shows for any kind of profit.  The following is an e-mail from Merck (the bands manager) when asked about the selling of CD-R's of Catherine Wheel Recordings:
 
(2/24/98):
On the selling of CD-R's of Catherine Wheel recordings, UK charts and formatting of singles

We do not object to anyone who has the initiative to record our live shows , circulate rarities, include us in mix tapes etc. provided that these are being traded. What we object to is selling these items no matter how small the profit and counterfeiting.

Remember, they have allowed us to share their work, please don't abuse this privilege. 
 
 
Can these shows be sold?
  No.  By accepting material from the CWLA, you agree not to sell the material or any copies thereof.  Any attempt to sell these shows provided by the CWLA will be a violation of the copyright of the artist and label and subject to legal action.  We will not tolerate people trying to turn a buck on these shows. 
 
 
Credit where credit is due!
  There's no doubt in my mind that we (as fans and the 'core' team') would be here talking about this without the initial legwork already done by the etree pioneers, who have also given us their permission to use all their FAQs and information for our musical adventure. Hat's off to the etree pioneers who made it possible for us to even dream of this stage of the CWLA!  I personally knew (in my mind) that I had hit the jackpot when I discovered etree - being a DeadHead at heart and seeing more high quality shows being made available for FREE. It started as an ideal, and the true members with passion stuck it out, with fruit to bear!

So any credit goes to etree and all that made this all possible (links that have 'etree' or 'hamilton' in it are some examples)

Credit also needs to be given to The Catherine Wheel, for providing exceptional music and allowing us to share their music with fans.